Wednesday, October 16, 2013

Ohio Concealed Carry Permit Holder Shoots Girlfriend - It Was the Gun's Fault - No Charges

Local news reports

A shooting that injured a 25-year-old Etna woman has officially been ruled an accident by detectives. 

Crystal Johnson was taken to Grant Medical Center around 8 p.m. Friday night after she was accidentally shot by her boyfriend, 25-year-old Aviz Quraish, on the 400 block of Ballman Road. 

Licking County Sheriff’s Office Detective Sgt. Brock Harmon said Quraish had received his conceal/carry permit on Friday and was in the kitchen of the residence with Johnson looking at the holster for his handgun.

“At one point in time, he produced the handgun and dropped a magazine in the handgun and pulled the slide back and the gun went off,” Harmon said. “He immediately sat her down and tried to help her out.”

This is the caliber of gun savvy folks we have getting carry permits. How does a gun go off when you pull the slide back? Answer: the same way a gun goes off anytime, by pulling the trigger.

Maybe that should be one of the test questions.

What's your opinion?  Please leave a comment.


31 comments:

  1. Since the make and model of the gun weren't specified and since more details aren't available, we can't rule out mechanical failure. He shouldn't have been pointing the gun in an unsafe direction, but no, you cannot be certain this was a case of the trigger being squeezed.

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    1. Sure, the old fairly-commonplace mechanical failure.

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    2. Why do you feel the need to lie about Greg's arguments? He didn't say that mechanical failures were commonplace--he said that they were possible and that we can't rule them out without more information.

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    3. Mechanical failures are so rare that we CAN INDEED rule them out. Putting your finger on the trigger negligently is what causes this kind of thing.

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    4. Gee, I guess I, and millions of other owners, didn't need to get our CZ-52's fixed so that the decocker didn't function as a second trigger. I guess we can all stop worrying about not chambering the same round repeatedly potentially causing it to fire. SKS owners, yall can stop worrying about cleaning your firing pins so much and don't need to worry about whether you put them in upside down or not.

      I guess we can also put Sarah Brady in the liars column for talking about that hunting rifle of her son's having a defective design--do the same with the 60 minutes report on that model.

      Oh, and WWII collectors--you don't have to be so gingerly in handling your Lugers anymore.

      MikeB, the Great and Powerful, has spoken: Mechanical failures don't cause accidents.

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    5. Oh, and Mike, that's still a dodge--you still lied about Greg's argument, and your statement that mechanical failures are rare does not counter his statement that one needs to rule them out on a case by case basis--after all, I thought we wanted to find out the truth of what happened.

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    6. You're the one dodging, man. Mechanical failures are rare enough that we can assume another one of you lawful gun owners put his fucking finger on the trigger when he shouldn't have.

      And in this argument you're a hypocrite. You always tell us about the modern guns vs. antique ones when I post a story about a dropped gun going off. You say chances are so rare that it was an old gun that we can assume the gun owner tried to catch the gun rather then it went off when dropped. Now you're telling us this one might have been an old gun and we have to rule that out.

      You're a liar and a hypocrite. And Greg was trying to defend the bumbling concealed carry permit holder by insisting that mechanical failure was a possibility.

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    7. Mikeb, yes or no: Is mechanical failure a possibility?

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    8. Wow, I'm a liar and a hypocrite based on old arguments you've had with other commentors on here before I started coming around!

      Calm down sparky.

      I've never argued that attempting to catch a gun was the cause of a shooting and that mechanical failure could be ruled out. If I had, wouldn't that have been an argument to make it the fault of the person and not the gun--the opposite of what you're accusing of here?

      So you're accusing me less of hypocrisy and more of schizophrenic argument with myself...

      If you want to talk about probabilities, Yes, it's USUALLY the person pulling the trigger, or the person catching a gun, so we can say that this is probably what happened in a given case. That being said, it is still possible for a mechanical failure to be the cause in any case.

      What we resist doing is saying "This is what happened" unless we know the details--we're not comfortable pontificating about exactly what happened in a case when all we know is what probably happened.

      As for your closing insults, I don't put much stock in your false accusations after all the times you have slandered me on this website, been shown that you were wrong, and then neglected to take back anything. Look in the mirror and you will see the real liar and hypocrite.

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    9. Mechanical failure as the explanation for an accidental shooting is as likely as a meteorite strike coming down on your head. Just like you don't bother with protective headgear because you've determined it's so unlikely that you'll need it, we can dismiss the mechanical failure explanation for what was really a negligent discharge. Of course, you'd need to be reasonable and honest, which you guys are not. You're biased and desperate.

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    10. 1: I'd like to see your statistics that say that mechanical failures are as rare as meteorite strikes, because I think you're pulling that one out of your ass.

      2: Regardless--meteor strikes DO happen and people do get struck by lightning. Mechanical failure accidents do happen, so mechanical failure needs to be ruled out in each case.

      Of course, a person would have to be capable of understanding logic to get that.

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  2. A: It was loaded (stupidity)
    B: The bullet can only be fired if the firing pin hits it (mishandling)
    C: The shooter is trying to justify his mishandling (irresponsibility)

    You gun guys are always going on about how "it's not the gun"... until it's one of your own who acts stupidly, often with lethal consequences, and then suddenly it's the gun's fault (or gangs or druggies or Obama or whatever BS excuse du jour).

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    1. You missed the part about how I said the gun shouldn't have been pointed in an unsafe direction?

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    2. You said that as a sort-of parenthetic aside to your main point which was it could have been mechanical failure.

      Always defending the negligent gun owner, that's you, Greg.

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    3. Mikeb, I did not defend this person. I insisted that we know all the facts before declaring what happened. In your world, being logical is defending someone. But I don't draw conclusions about an incident on purely ideological grounds.

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    4. No, you don't jump to conclusions when it comes to defending a negligent dangerous gun owner.

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    5. I did not defend him. Stop lying, and read again what I said above.

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    6. By introducing the extremely rare possibility of mechanical failure as an explanation, you fucking well did defend him. That's what you do. You defend gun owners, even the hidden criminals and bumbling idiots.

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  3. Baldr,

    While I agree with you on B and C, you're incorrect on A. Many of these negligent discharges occur because people believe the weapon is unloaded. In the case of someone with a carry permit, even more so than someone who just keeps a firearm for other purposes, the weapon is supposed to be loaded. It is of no use if it isn't.
    For example, carrying an empty pistol without a permit will in most cases get you in just as much trouble as carrying a loaded one.
    I'd suggest taking a firearms safety course to improve your knowledge of firearms.

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    1. He wasn't a guy who had a loaded gun for self-protection. He was a guy who pointed a gun at his girlfriend for some reason. Baldr said it was stupid to have such a gun loaded and you want to argue with that????

      You're getting more like Greg every day.

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    2. "Licking County Sheriff’s Office Detective Sgt. Brock Harmon said Quraish had received his conceal/carry permit on Friday and was in the kitchen of the residence with Johnson looking at the holster for his handgun."

      Mike, you took your usual great delight in labeling him a permit holder. He had a permit, a holster, and a loaded pistol. It's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that it is his carry piece. I own several handguns that I have no holster for because they are ones I use only for range shooting.
      While he seems to have excercised a lot of stupidity, the firearm you carry is supposed to be loaded, just like a police officer's.

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    3. What would be the point of carrying a gun if it's not loaded? The error here was pointing it in the wrong direction, not having a round in the chamber.

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    4. @ "ss": No, having your gun needlessly loaded is stupidity. Handling it stupidly while pointing it at your girlfriend is, in my mind, criminal, and he should have his rights removed. But YOU guys are perfectly willing to arm him again. Wouldn't want nearly killing someone to get in the way of his gunzzz rightzzz.

      But, but... didn't he take one of them thar conceal carry courses that are supposed to be all-you-need-to-know about gun safety training, according to the gun crowd???

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    5. Wow, Baldr. You claim to be the most eloquent and judicious of the Norse pantheon, and yet you can't rise above the commenting ability of the common troll? "Stupid stupid stupid gunzzzzzzzzz!"

      Sarge's comment pertained to having a gun loaded because it was a carry piece you were carrying. No reply arguing against carry, nothing arguing even for empty chamber carry, just a comment that loading a gun was stupid.

      You are indeed wise.


      As for your comment about carry courses, if we let you guys mandate all the training you want so that carriers have to go through as much training as the police, how is that going to prevent these types of shootings? Police regularly have ND's too.

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    6. Baldr,

      I hope we aren't going to do the hillbilly thing again. Whether this guy loses his rights to own firearms is up to the local criminal justice system.
      My guess is that likely so since this took place in Pennsylvania. While training classes are a good thing, it doesn't guarantee that it will "take" Then there is Vermont, a state that requires no permit, yet has one of the lowest crime rates in the country. And as Tennesean has said, even professionals in law enforcement have these issues too.
      People with carry permits have been found to not be a danger to public safety that many anti-gun groups paint them to be. In fact, a Prosecutor in Oregon has recently made a public statement that he was mistaken in his concerns about Oregon's carry permit system.

      "I thought it would be a disaster. I was wrong. Based on my experience, crimes by CHL holders are very rare and are certainly less than in the general population."
      http://blog.oregonlive.com/myoregon/2013/10/letter_conceal-carry_licenses.html

      Its a rare and heartening thing to find an elected official who is willing to publically admit his error.

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    7. What is the point of carrying an unloaded gun, except to make a political statement?

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    8. "While he seems to have excercised a lot of stupidity, the firearm you carry is supposed to be loaded, just like a police officer's."

      Not when you point it at your girlfriend. Why are we even arguing about this?

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    9. "Not when you point it at your girlfriend."

      Seriously, Mike? Coming from you who want to codify the 4 rules as laws? You're not supposed to be pointing the gun at your girlfriend period (unless it's bona fide self defense), loaded or not.

      Also, that's an attempt to help Baldr weasel out of his comment. He didn't say that the gun should have been unloaded while being pointed at the gf, he said it shouldn't have been loaded period.

      Thanks for playing, but please try again.

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    10. Mr. Mendacious desperate-for-a-gotcha, you know fucking well I didn't mean it's OK to point a gun at your girlfriend as long as it's empty.

      Maybe I should start over with ss who tried to justify the fact that the gun was loaded by saying the guy had a permit to carry and focus on the Rule violation.

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    11. And Mikeb, if you'll notice, I did comment about that very violation at the top of this discussion.

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    12. Mendacious? For pointing out something stupid you said in trying to bail out Baldr?

      As for the rule violation, that was already discussed--Sarge was having a side discussion about something stupid Baldr said. Your remark was a red herring. But yes, I'm just being being a mendacious gotcha player for noting your red herring for being such and trying to get back to the original line of the discussion.

      I guess we can add lying to the list of words like racist which you have robbed of all meaning by using it to describe statements you don't like but which are truthful.

      Mikeb, Ladies and Gentlemen! Carrying on Humpty Dumpty's war on the English language!

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